RANDOM JOTTINGS


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Brit tecs could be a misnomer here as we all know that the creator of Roderick Alleyn came from New Zealand but as she spent most of her life in the UK and her detective could not be more British I have included her books.

It was not until 2006 that I discovered Doroty L Sayers. I picked up and read Gaudy Night and fell in love.  I don't regret the missed years, au contraire, I am now glad and happy that these were saved up for me when I have all the time in the world to read and can sit for hours and indulge myself.

I then went on to read all of the Wimsey books, some titles several times (Gaudy Night I seem to read every six months) and never tire of them.  And as I have always linked Lord Peter and Roderick Alleyn together I thought I would post about them.

After reading the entire oevre I was then struck with the similarity between Peter Wimsey and Roderick Alleyn, both of whom at times do strike me as being slightly fey and tend to overthink. I always feel that they both have a very think skin.

Both are 'gentlemen detectives' though Roderick Alleyn is a real policeman and a member of the CID, while Lord Peter regards it as a hobby.  They are both elegant, wear their clothes well, are interested in the theatre, music and books.   

They both marry strong women with their own careers:  Lord Peter marries Harriet Vane, who writes detective stories and Alleyn's wife, Agatha Troy, is a famous and distinguished artist.  Harriet and Troy also share a similar trait, both have a prickly personality in that they both fought their feelings and, initially, did not wish to marry.  Harriet because she disliked being beholden to Lord Peter who saved her from being convicted of murder, and also did not wish to lose her independence, and Agatha, a very private woman, who disliked her husband's profession very much.  As she was involved with a murder investigation (Artists in Crime) shortly after their initial meeting, this is hardly surprising.

As with all good detective stories, each has his 'side kick', usually of the plebeian order, Lord Peter has Bunter (who, in many ways is a more of a snob than his master) and Alleyn has Inspector Fox, who he calls rather whimsically (if you will forgive the use of the word) Brer Fox.  Both are essentially there to admire and appreciate their superior, usually uncritically.  Readers know that Bunter and Fox are devoted to their masters and would lay down their lives for them.

Both Alleyn and Wimsey moved in high society circles; both had aristocratic mothers, Alleyn had a brother George ( a 'silly ass') who was a diplomat and Wimsey had a brother Gerald (also a 'silly ass') who held the fictional title of the Duke of Denver.  One of my favourite Marsh novels is Death in a White Tie which is set in the Season and where a murder takes place at a grand social occasion.  Beautifully described and written this shows Ngaio Marsh had a very good working knowledge of the aristocracy and its comings and goings at this time.

The 'gentleman detective' has, of course, continued in the books of Elizabeth George and, to some extent, in PD James Inspector Dalgliesh stories (as well as being a policeman he is also a poet).  Elizabeth George is an American writer who has a huge admiration for the English detective novel and has striven to recreate this genre.  The current editions of the Sayers have a foreword written by her in which she makes no secret of her admiration for these books. 

Sadly, her detective, Inspector Lynley (who is a member of the aristocracy and is called 'Tommy' by his friends for heaven's sake) is a pastiche and not really believable.  He is self obsessed, angst ridden and continually doubting himself and his motives.  He also has a 'pleb' side kick, Barbara Havers, very much a member of the working class, no musical tastes, eats junk food, wears trainers and dreadful anoraks, and is a complete contrast to her boss.  Though she will not admit it, she is devoted to the Terrible Tommy and it is her detecting that solves the problem most of the time. Lynley marries an equally self obsessed, ghastly wife called Helen who is, without doubt, the most irritating female I have ever met in fiction (with perhaps the exception of Irene in the Forsyth Saga, who I wanted to shake most of the time.  My sympathies were always with Soames who I felt showed remarkable forbearance towards his wife but that is a blog for another day).   Elizabeth George had the sense to kill her off to my relief which vanished pretty quickly when I realised it merely gave Lynley the chance to wander off and treat us to hundreds of pages of more angst and introspection.    I have read all of the George books but finally called a halt as one of them used the horrific James Bulger case as a plot device which I found utterly despicable. 

(I essayed an attempt to read a recent one after ignoring them for several years and, yes, still as verbose and rambling so have finally put them to bed)

I do wonder who had influenced who in the Peter/Roderick output and if either of these authors had read the other and, on checking bibliographies, can see that the first D L Sayers novel was published in 1923 and Ngaio Marsh had her first, A Man Lay Dead, published in 1934 so she would have had ample time to read, and be influenced by, Lord Peter Wimsey. I have been hunting out some references on Ngaio's thoughts on DL Sayers and have found this:

"She had cordial relations with Christie and Allingham but loathed Sayers, and was one of the most vehement proponents of the cruel rumour that Sayers was a pathetic, dried-up old biddy who created Harriet Vane as an author avatar because she had fallen in love with Lord Peter Wimsey".  

This is rather horrid and I find it a bit upsetting that she had this view of DLS, a biography of whom I recently read which shows that this is rather wide of the mark.

and then this:

"Miss Idris Campanula and Miss Eleanor Prentice in Overture to Death are both vicious caricatures of Dorothy L. Sayers. Eleanor Prentice is a passive-aggressive, sex-hating, shrewish, bitter harpy who literally cannot control herself when she hears the ringing of church bells and is driven to madness by the possibility that she might miss Sunday service. Idris Campanula is a vicious, screeching tartar who tries to control people with money. Even their names are allusions: "Campanula" means "bell ringer" and is an allusion to Sayers The Nine Taylors, while Miss Prentice of the Hall is a reference to Prentice-Hall, Sayers's publisher"

NOT very nice and yet, despite this, her creation owes a lot to Wimsey.   Perhaps she was a tad miffed that she had not come up with a 'gentleman detective' first. And, quite frankly, the way she writes about Alleyn it was clear that she had also fallen into the tap of being in love with her creation.

I have discovered two marvellous illustrations by Robert Fawcett (1903-1967) who achieved fame as a book and magazine illustrator.  "As he was slightly colour blind, Fawcett did not excel as a painter, but he was an excellent draftsman and designer, with a strong eye for detail. He produced story illustrations and full-page ads that appeared in The Saturday Evening Post, Collier's Weekly, Holiday, Cosmopolitan and numerous other magazines".

They are both from Final Curtain in which Troy is persuaded by Thomas Ancred to paint his father, Sir Henry Ancred, a retired actor and Knight of the Realm.

Ag and rod
"The man who stood before the unkindled hearth was tall and stooped a little. His hair, which had the appearance of floss, stood up thinly like a child’s. He wore glasses and blinked behind them at Troy.

“Good afternoon,” he said. “I’m Thomas Ancred."

   Final curtain

The second shows Troy at work painting Sir Henry, who is in costume as Macbeth, one of his greatest parts.

I love both these illustrations and if you Google Robert Fawcett and check him out, his catalogue of work and illustrations is simply fascinating.

I adore the Golden Age of crime writing and part of its charm is the manners and speech of the time. Marsh is stuck in this time warp in all of her books, even the later ones written in the 60s and 70s, which makes them sound rather dated to say the least. She has a slightly mannered and camp style which appeals to me enormously and after an extended run of Marsh I find the words insufferable, impertinent and tedious start to litter my conversation….

Of course after reading D L Sayers I find myself saying 'Don't cha know' and pronouncing dropping as droppin' and getting a bit high and mighty.    I then remember Lord Peter saying to his faithful Bunter to whom he gives an enormous amount of leeway 'borderin' Bunter borderin' just to remind him not to overstep the mark.

After a tough crime novel set in the US or an enigmatic and dark one set in Scandinavia or a glut of serial killers, there is something soothing about returning to this era of 'teckery' (and that is a Marshism!)

Who do you prefer – Alleyn or Sir Peter? Or, like me, do you love them both…

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26 responses to “Random on BritTecs – Posh Tecs: Wimsey and Alleyn”

  1. Elaine Avatar

    I have written about PD James many times but I have to include her in this series of post so one coming up soon

  2. Elaine Avatar

    Artists in Crime is not one of her best and right from the start I have to say I find Troy a bit precious at times. Yes her theatrical books are excellent but Death in a White Tie is top of my list

  3. Elaine Avatar

    Nearly a y ear now so I have to look at it again soon

  4. Southern Gal Avatar
    Southern Gal

    *’mind you no iPhones then, so i would read and read… ‘

  5. Southern Gal Avatar
    Southern Gal

    i have saved up the Walsh books. not a ton of reading in the last few years – but glad to hear they are well done …. its almost like Morse .. .i refuse to watch the last ep of the tv series nor read the last book.
    one day but not now

  6. Southern Gal Avatar
    Southern Gal

    GN every year absolutely a must and my favorite passages marked out.

  7. Southern Gal Avatar
    Southern Gal

    Love this post. I discovered Sayers and Marsh years before that – in my early years in NYC i survived by temping at law firms and often had hours of waiting around for lawyers to finish meetings or writing briefs etc. mind you no iPhones then. dont recall how i stumbled upon Sayers but i lapped them up and was sad to finish and that lead me to Marsh – who of course has dozens. and PD James not long behind… and Colin Dexter but there we are in a slightly different area.
    having recently moved to my first home, i set up my office (in a room that could only be a nursery or walkin closet) i have two walls of bookcases and they are filled with my mysteries – paper and hard (for in those days i could only afford paper but they are still good!) and as i was unpacking and organizing it was if welcoming good friends – and here you are in your new home… and of course hard to stop and not skim thru.
    love all the info you had in this post too!

  8. Constance Avatar

    I love them both but feel like Rory is better at connecting with people, especially young people in their 20s. There is something very reassuring about him although in real life he is probably more conventionally attractive than Lord Peter.
    In recent years as I have reread a few of the Marsh books, I realize some are much better than others. I wanted a judge I worked for to love the series and agonized about which book to give him. Unfortunately, I chose Artists in Crime because I thought that is when Troy first appears. I don’t remember what turned him off but he didn’t like it and when I reread it, I realized I didn’t like it that much either. For the most part, my favorites are the ones with theatre settings, which makes sense, given that was her first love.

  9. Ann Hall Avatar
    Ann Hall

    I didn’t read that one but I am so glad you took them to task for it.

  10. Elaine Avatar

    Marsh seems a marmite author you either love her or hate her and some say her style is difficult. I love it but sometimes Alleyn and Troy can seem a tad precious.
    The first one is not very good. My favourite is Death in a White Tie, and Death and the Dancing Foorman is brilliant. But I love them all really

  11. Elaine Avatar

    I like the Paton Walsh sequels verymuch and feel she has captured the style beautifully
    And I am very fond of Inspector Grant as well

  12. Elaine Avatar

    seems Lynley is not at all popular !

  13. Elaine Avatar

    One of the Lynley books was based on the Bulgar case and I wrote to the publishers and asked what the hell they thought they were doing? it was appalling

  14. Elaine Avatar

    I hate to say it because when I do people gasp in horror, but I cannot get on with Allingham or Campion.
    There I have said it…
    Oh yes Lyley and Serrailer have so much in common. Self obsessed bores both of them
    Glad another Soames lover

  15. Elaine Avatar

    I have read all Marsh so many times. Death in a WHite Tie is about my most favourite though clutch o constables runs it close.
    I love that ‘borderin bunter borderin’ is used by your daughter!!
    The Elizabeth George books got progressively worse and worse and longer and longer and I finally gave up on them

  16. Elaine Avatar

    Love Soames and could never understand why he was always cast as the villain of the piece. Irene does nothing but sit around and cause trouble and then Soames daughter has to suffer as well. Ghastly woman

  17. Elaine Avatar

    Oh yes I remember that Harlequin chapter very well.
    I did not discover Sayers until I was middle aged and glad I was that I did as it gave me a wonderful discovery
    Gaudy Night is my favourite and I read it every year

  18. Pam Avatar
    Pam

    Great comparison Elaine. Gaudy Night is one of my all time favorites. I have yet to read any of Marsh. Must get on that! And I agree with a couple of the other comments that the Jill Paton Walsh sequels are good too.

  19. Helen Avatar
    Helen

    Lord Peter for me every time although I quite like Josephine Tey’s Inspector Grant as well.
    The Jill Paton Walsh ‘sequels’ are also terrific, especially Presumption of Death, an excellent wartime thriller in its own right.

  20. Helen Avatar
    Helen

    Me too! Both in the film and the book I find Irene a total bore, every mothers worst nightmare of a daughter-in-law – well, at least until La Markle came along!

  21. Sandy G Avatar
    Sandy G

    I also love them both. Wimsey is just in front as my favourite and I, too, frequently re-read Gaudy Night and Busman’s Honeymoon.
    I cannot warm to Lynley either – if I want to read about a posh cop I’ll go back to Roderick Alleyn.

  22. Ann Hall Avatar
    Ann Hall

    Love them both! Also love Albert Campion. Agree with you about Lynley.

  23. callmemadam Avatar

    Wimsey for me and I prefer Allingham’s Albert Campion to ‘handsome Alleyn’. I read several Elizabeth George books before giving up because I was sick of Lynley. I have the same problem with Susan Hill’s Serraillier. Grow up and sort yourself out is my attitude.
    Another Soames-ite here; I’m so glad not to be the only one.

  24. Trevene Shillam Avatar
    Trevene Shillam

    Elaine, like you Roderick Alleyn & Lord Peter are my two favourite detectives. I discovered Ngaio Marsh in my late teens & have been a fan ever since. I didn’t appreciate Dorothy L Sayers’ Lord Peter, until twenty or so years ago. Now I’m going to say something blasphemous, I may even prefer Jill Paton Walsh’s continuing of the series with the four later Lord Peter Wimsey and Harriet Vane stories, which I think follow on seamlessly from the originals.
    I find Elizabeth George’s Inspector Lynley, a dreadful pastiche of English gentleman detectives, failing to have neither charm nor originality. I really wanted to like these books, but after quite a few attempts, have given him up.
    Funnily enough that phrase ‘borderin’ Bunter borderin’ is used by my daughter (another Sayers’ fan) when she feels I’m coming close to interfering in something (usually her life).

  25. Liz Basile Avatar
    Liz Basile

    I just finished The Forsyte Saga and completely agree with you on Irene–the most profoundly uninteresting femme fatale in history. I found Soames tremendously sympathetic and loved his conversations his father and with Winifred.

  26. Wanda Avatar
    Wanda

    I ADORE Lord Peter. Picked up an old copy of Nine Tailors at a jumble in the 80’s and proceeded to read everything. Including biographies of Sayers. Nine Tailors is my absolute favourite, though I admit to getting hot flushes over Murder Must Advertise – Lord Peter was pearl clutchingly attractive as Harlequin 😁

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